it keeps disconnecting randomly.....but always after a hard pull.
ie....i'll pull up the log recorder, start recording....drive round normally and its fine....then if you give it a good hard pull in say 2nd.....as soon as you lift off the gas, its garunteed to disconnect consult....and hence also stop recording.
I tried to click the "file-debug log" option....but theres a bunch of log files in the log folder and all look like normal log files of consult.....not of debug stuff?
consult will also disconnect randomly sometimes even if not after a hard pull
this is the latest log....I had a debug log clicked, and also a consult log recording....and this is all that it appeared to save
running the latest nistune software.....and a type 1 rev3 board for CA18DET ( havent sent back for firmware updates yet)
consult keeps disconnecting....
Moderator: Matt
consult keeps disconnecting....
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This issue has been investigated previously and the NIStune Diagnostics document covers it also. We noticed some people do and some dont so had a look into it
Basically what is happening is that when you get electrical noise, it can enter the USB cable and affect communications
The USB bus is differential line pair, which means that if a spike enters the cable then both lines should rise/fall at the same time. However get too much noise and start gettting a differential differnece and then you start to lose data
The higher the RPMs, the more electrical noise that you get. I measured the USB lines with a scope and noted this as RPMs it increases so does the noise (ignition noise can feedback through the system)
Put a lot of noise in continously and no data can get over the bus (communications will fail and windows will fail to read the device any more). This is when you get the NIStune disconnect
We started on the Rev3 boards putting a lot of filtering and decoupling capacitors for a start, but thats not enough.
Next I added some smarts to the software to detect USB device failure and 'reenumate' the device effectively the same as unplugging/replugging it back in for recovery. But that can only work so well too
The main thing is to eliminate the electrical noise... detailed in the diagnostics document but basically make sure your USB connector is grounded to ECU case, and ECU is installed against chasis so it grounds. This should ground the USB shield of the cable
Also I noted during tests that with particular laptops, due to the way they were grounded/not grounded would cause problems. If your laptop like my old Dell which was powered via cigarette lighter is having problems, then ground that using the VGA output shield or similar to chasis
If both ECU and laptop are grounded, and you still have noise, ensure that your battery, engine etc grounding points are clean and tight.
If you do the above, you shouldnt have problems.
If I run my RB30 with my old Dell, no ground from cigarette power then it will disconnect within a minute. However if I ground that laptop and ECU then no problems.
My newer Dell just running battery on my RB30 as well as S13 CA18 both with Type 1 boards ran fine the whole time (> 1 hour) with no disconnects even when high RPMs etc
Basically what is happening is that when you get electrical noise, it can enter the USB cable and affect communications
The USB bus is differential line pair, which means that if a spike enters the cable then both lines should rise/fall at the same time. However get too much noise and start gettting a differential differnece and then you start to lose data
The higher the RPMs, the more electrical noise that you get. I measured the USB lines with a scope and noted this as RPMs it increases so does the noise (ignition noise can feedback through the system)
Put a lot of noise in continously and no data can get over the bus (communications will fail and windows will fail to read the device any more). This is when you get the NIStune disconnect
We started on the Rev3 boards putting a lot of filtering and decoupling capacitors for a start, but thats not enough.
Next I added some smarts to the software to detect USB device failure and 'reenumate' the device effectively the same as unplugging/replugging it back in for recovery. But that can only work so well too
The main thing is to eliminate the electrical noise... detailed in the diagnostics document but basically make sure your USB connector is grounded to ECU case, and ECU is installed against chasis so it grounds. This should ground the USB shield of the cable
Also I noted during tests that with particular laptops, due to the way they were grounded/not grounded would cause problems. If your laptop like my old Dell which was powered via cigarette lighter is having problems, then ground that using the VGA output shield or similar to chasis
If both ECU and laptop are grounded, and you still have noise, ensure that your battery, engine etc grounding points are clean and tight.
If you do the above, you shouldnt have problems.
If I run my RB30 with my old Dell, no ground from cigarette power then it will disconnect within a minute. However if I ground that laptop and ECU then no problems.
My newer Dell just running battery on my RB30 as well as S13 CA18 both with Type 1 boards ran fine the whole time (> 1 hour) with no disconnects even when high RPMs etc
I've just stripped out & re-routed the wiring in my 200SX, moved the ECU from its original grounded position and have had the USB Consult disconnecting every 5 minutes or so tonight, regardless of rev/load. I had also hooked up a Bee*R rev limiter along with my SAFC2 via the ECU +ve and ground and had originally thought this would be the cause of my problems, but it appears to be a grounding issue.
I'm grounding the ECU chassis, trying a different USB cable & will also ground the laptop separately.
I'm grounding the ECU chassis, trying a different USB cable & will also ground the laptop separately.
Right, I re-installed the ECU in its original position, tried different cables & grounded the laptop to the chassis. Also tried with the laptop powered via cig lighter and solely off the battery. None of this stopped the consult disconnecting every few moments.
After the ECU relocation & wiring everything was fine for a day or so of 1/4 mile action, but on the night the problems started. The following day I noticed that the USB connector at the laptop end was sparking when I connected & disconnected the cable! Nothing's fried as everything still works as it should, but I'm assuming the cable is no longer grounded at the ECU end somehow.
Any ideas?
After the ECU relocation & wiring everything was fine for a day or so of 1/4 mile action, but on the night the problems started. The following day I noticed that the USB connector at the laptop end was sparking when I connected & disconnected the cable! Nothing's fried as everything still works as it should, but I'm assuming the cable is no longer grounded at the ECU end somehow.
Any ideas?
13.434@114.21mph Standard CA18DET + T70
Well, I appear to have sorted it 
It would seem that when I did the loom work & reconnected the ECU, the USB cable was no longer pressed firmly against the casing. Having had the ECU apart and checked everything, I was still getting constant drop-outs the moment I moved the car. Finally managed to cause one by (ahem) shaking the ECU whilst stationary. So removed & refitted the NIStune female USB connector & ensured it was positioned so that the cable was jammed hard against the casing.
No more disconnects (so far)...
It would seem that when I did the loom work & reconnected the ECU, the USB cable was no longer pressed firmly against the casing. Having had the ECU apart and checked everything, I was still getting constant drop-outs the moment I moved the car. Finally managed to cause one by (ahem) shaking the ECU whilst stationary. So removed & refitted the NIStune female USB connector & ensured it was positioned so that the cable was jammed hard against the casing.
No more disconnects (so far)...
Sparking not good. Sounds like the laptop 5 volts (0.5 amp) shorting against something due to dodgy connection
Different laptops have various results with grounding (and USB stability). One of my laptops was able to disconnect easily with no grounding, so I used that to improve the software/hardware stablity of the connectivity
Different laptops have various results with grounding (and USB stability). One of my laptops was able to disconnect easily with no grounding, so I used that to improve the software/hardware stablity of the connectivity
i just connected for the first time!!
I was able to sync from the ecu ok.
when running the engine at idle, just looking around to get an idea of whats going on, it just kept dropping out after only a few seconds.
i will try a booster cable straight to the ecu case, and try shorting the usb case to the ecu. i will also try removing the cdi and running on just the ecu.
btw, laptop was on battery mode. (asus)
I was able to sync from the ecu ok.
when running the engine at idle, just looking around to get an idea of whats going on, it just kept dropping out after only a few seconds.
i will try a booster cable straight to the ecu case, and try shorting the usb case to the ecu. i will also try removing the cdi and running on just the ecu.
btw, laptop was on battery mode. (asus)
Hey Brett
If its only disconnecting when engine running then electrical noise...
Check the following
1. All major grounding points. They should be clean and tight. Basically from battery to chasis, motor etc. Remove and clean and try again
2. Try grounding the laptop itself to chasis, as well as the ECU.
3. Check other sources of electrical noise such as ignition system etc
The way that USB works is that there are two lines which carry a 'differential signal'. What happens is if there is noise, both lines move the same amount and no noise is picked up
If there is an increasing amount noise, there may be an error and USB protocol will sort it out
If there is too much noise, the USB driver on the laptop gives up and the connection drops on Nistune
All the boards have the required caps and shielding etc
The rest is up to the install and if too much noise put over the USB cable (primarily from ignition system) then it will stop comms from working
By tieing everything to ground and with good clean connections, you will reduce amount of noise going into the USB cable
As mentioned above, some cars have more electrical noise that others. Some laptops are more sensitive than others. I found one laptop really bad at dropping (this was my test laptop with this issue) and found others no problems at all. The bad laptop was made better with grounding the laptop itself and ECU casing both to gorund so it filtered out a lot of the noise getting into the USB cable
If its only disconnecting when engine running then electrical noise...
Check the following
1. All major grounding points. They should be clean and tight. Basically from battery to chasis, motor etc. Remove and clean and try again
2. Try grounding the laptop itself to chasis, as well as the ECU.
3. Check other sources of electrical noise such as ignition system etc
The way that USB works is that there are two lines which carry a 'differential signal'. What happens is if there is noise, both lines move the same amount and no noise is picked up
If there is an increasing amount noise, there may be an error and USB protocol will sort it out
If there is too much noise, the USB driver on the laptop gives up and the connection drops on Nistune
All the boards have the required caps and shielding etc
The rest is up to the install and if too much noise put over the USB cable (primarily from ignition system) then it will stop comms from working
By tieing everything to ground and with good clean connections, you will reduce amount of noise going into the USB cable
As mentioned above, some cars have more electrical noise that others. Some laptops are more sensitive than others. I found one laptop really bad at dropping (this was my test laptop with this issue) and found others no problems at all. The bad laptop was made better with grounding the laptop itself and ECU casing both to gorund so it filtered out a lot of the noise getting into the USB cable
I had the same issue how it would stay connected while off, but once it was started it would randomly drop out. I just redid the engine to chassis ground, ground down the paint/rust, changed the original wire for a new wire and use dielectric grease to keep the rust/oxidation from forming and have now been able to keep Nistune connected for more than an hour.
Thanks for the help Matt.
Thanks for the help Matt.