New user, a few questions

DeJi · Post by **DeJi** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:50 am

Hi! I'm new with Nistune, and would concider myself somewhat experienced (probably a total newb compared to a lot of you guys) in the world of EFI tuning. I had a GReddy E-Manage ultimate in my CA18DET powered 200sx s13, until I got fed up with it's inaccuracy and some timing problems I had.

I've tuned it myself, also installed and tuned another e-manage ultimate into a mates car. So I have some experience in tuning, but the Nistune offers a lot more tables to be changed, which both excites and scares me

Anyway. I got the car running pretty good so far, without too much problems. I installed the Nistune last sunday. Had some minor problems with ADR files and such, but nothing major. I've succeeded in changing injectors and AFM and creating a basemap that I'm quite pleased with, but of course needs fine tuning.

I noticed that at relatively low boost I'm maxing out on the TP-scale, and was going to resize it manually by clicking on the numbers inside the map (it's how you do it in the e-manage..). The first number was 4, so I clicked on it and changed it to 8. But it didn't like that, and instead changed it to 153. Doesn't matter what I enter, it automatically sets it at 153. Why does it do this?

My next problem is, that when my electric fan starts (fitted it myself, stock fan is viscous), it draws a lot of current, which makes idle drop by around 200-250rpm. This was no problem with the E-manage, but with the Nistune it leans out the map across the whole range. It goes from a solid 14.5 at idle, to around 18.5 or more. If I'm driving when the fan kicks in, it goes from 14-ish to 16-ish. All still within the same load cell. Does anyone have an answer for this?

Finally, I can't seem to read the AFR's from my TechEdge inside Nistune. I've got the techedge connected and I can read the AFR's in TechEdge's own program (also have a 52mm gauge so I can see what's going on without the laptop). When I select the AFR grapher, it was first set to knock, so it filled out the map with knock values instead. The only other choice I have in the dropdown list is TP. Any common problem with this?

I have a rolling road session this tuesday and I need to get as much as possible sorted out before then. It requires me to make a 3hr drive with the car, to a tuner that hasn't tuned Nistune before.

Thanks a lot in advance!
Daniel from Sweden

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:13 am

Hi Daniel

(a) How did you change it to 8? Ie did you click on it and then use the +/- keys inside the fuel map itself? I tried this and no problems there so confused

Other method is to open the fuel scales directly and either +/- that or edit the values directly (if File-Configuration - filtered tables is off)

I'm not too sure how you are getting 153 since I cant seem to make it happen here (screenshot?)

(b) Regardin the fan. What is your battery voltage when this happens? Perhaps the injection opening time vs voltage is an issue. I'm not sure since its factory ECU functionality that is affected here (we just let you change its settings with the Nistune board installed) so surely you would have seen the same issue with the emanage piggyback installed? Not sure on that one

Monitor your AFRs along with battery and Injection time, log them and then see if they are correlated on playback (can check against TP value also)

(c) File - Configuration - Techedge 2.0 (assuming you have the newer one) and wideband folder C:\Program Files\NIStune\Wideband\TechEdge2.0

When you connect to wideband are there any errors? do you get an AFR on the screen? If so then you should have AFR drop down in the AFR grapher screen.

DeJi · Post by **DeJi** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:58 am

I clicked on it, and manually entered 8. But I found the Fuel load scale and fuel rpm scale now, and changed there instead and that problem is fixed now

My battery voltage drops when the fan kicks in, as expected. The fan draws about 40 amps of current

It drops from around 13.4 on idle, to 12.2.
However I've tweaked the injector latency and injector multiplier a little bit and it seems to have made the problem a lot smaller. It's still there though, and as I just found it, it doesn't seem to be fan related. It gets slightly worse when the fan kicks in though, but the fan doesn't cause it.

It's more of an unstable idle really, and it swings from 12-ish AFR to 18-ish relatively slowly. It takes a second or so for it to go lean. Then it stays lean for a few seconds, then swings back to 12-ish. Then remains stabile for 3-4 seconds, then starts again. But it doesn't do it all the time. Half of the time, idle is perfect. I don't get it.

Another thing I remember having an issue with is that I can't lean the mixture at idle revs any more than to 12.5 or so. I can richen it, but I'm already at 0 on all the cells around the currently indexed cell.

Yes I have TechEdge 2.0, and in the configuration, it points to that folder. But I can't see my AFR's anywhere in NisTune. It detected it when I installed NisTune though, and there was a checkbox for TechEdge wideband support, which was checked.

DeJi · Post by **DeJi** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:16 am

am I supposed to increase the K constant until I get an acceptable AFR throughout the map? I'm having trouble understanding why I don't have to change the map very much to get a stabile fuel ratio.

I have to have 0 at the bottom of the map, and it idles at a very rich 12.3-12.5. If I rev it a little, it goes higher up the TP-scale and I get around 14.

When I cruise at low speed I have perfect 14.7-14.8 and when I boot it it goes up to 13-ish at medium load, and 12.5 or so at higher load, and at the top of the map I've only added 14 points in "raw value".

Does this sound about right? That's 14 points in difference between idle and 1.6 bar boost. Is this map just a fine-tuning of the theoretical values or something?

Do I only remove the O2 sensor temporarily while adjusting the K constant, and when I'm finished with it, I turn it back on?

Also I don't get the magenta-colored cells when I turn the O2 flag on in the fuel map. Tried all the different view types, and I don't see where the closed loop area is, and yes I've put the O2 sensor temperature back to 70 degrees, and the consult gauges shows it works, swinging back and forth.

DeJi · Post by **DeJi** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:52 pm

anybody got any ideas on any of my problems? I hope you didn't get bored and stopped reading half way.. sorry about the length of the post

I really need to get the AFR's reading right, and get the fuel map okay before I drive 3hrs to the tuner, and I've got an appointment this tuesday

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:36 am

some of this is covered in the tuning and mapping docs. basically have your O2 sensor disconnected until you are almost finished and just testing closed loop out

set maps to 0 and then get k constant right first, then adjust your maps aftewards

DeJi · Post by **DeJi** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:12 am

thanks.. that's what I figured. I'm sorry if I'm asking stupid questions that are already covered..

I fiddled around with K constant today, and it doesn't seem to affect idle AFR's one bit. When I adjusted it up, the whole map got lean (which would make sense), but the idle is still at 11-ish AFR.

Could it have anything to do with max/min injector pulse width? I haven't quite grasped that, and what it does. Haven't changed it at all. Could that be why my idle is so rich? Cause the injector pulses at low rpm are very long?

I also have to have the injector latency at 1100 or so, instead of 710 which is what the injectors are spec'ed at. Or maybe it doesn't have anything to do with specs? Just tweak the latency until the idle stops hunting?

Thanks! I'm slowly making sense of this whole thing

TM_S13 · Post by **TM_S13** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:15 pm

sorry to hijack this thread, but a question came to my mind.
what if the car in question is a version with no cat, therefore no O2 sensor.will it still be needed to de-activate the O2 feedback ?

DeJi · Post by **DeJi** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:33 am

the only thing that I can do to affect the idle to reach leaner values (as said, I'm idling at 11-ish AFR..), is to lower the injector latency to where the idle goes very unstable. If I turn it to 700uS, it stays at 13.5 AFR, but starts hunting back and forth between 20 and 12. Goes stabile for a little while, then starts hunting again. Tried tweaking the K constant while it did that, but didn't work much.. the only thing I can do to keep the idle smooth is to increase latency to 1100 uS, but that also richens the mixture greatly, back to 11 AFR or even lower. What am I doing wrong?? Please help