RB25DET with Z32 ECU Timing is really wierd.

[Peace]

Hello.

Yesterday i rolled a standart Z32bin with R33 merged maps on to my Z32 type 2 ECU. AFR was much or less and i corrected it easy.

The main problem is Timing. I was getting knoks on stock timing on all rev range as soon as i open throttle for more than 40%. I was almost ready to send al this to hell an put back stock ECU on wich everything looks fine and car goes as it should. But then i started to ecperiment.

I'm using custom knock monitoring with led indicator. Which i can setup manualy on which knock-vs-rev level to flash.

I zeroed all timing map and it become knocking even more. So as far as i got another engine i decided to put realy high timing, i thought ok, lets try, the worst thng i will blow engine =)


I put 40 to entire timing map and... No more knocks on full load at 0.6 bar on 3rd gear i made some runs from 10-20 kmh to the rev limiter there is only 1 spot where some fast knock apear wich i believe is the poing where NVCS disengage.

This is imposible 40 deg on the 0.6 boost at the 6+ rev.

There is no problem with CAS because when i put stock ECU on place with stock maps everything working as it should.

Did someone else got problem like this?
Bad thin i cant check another ECU because of 4 moded ECU only 1 works fine. Anotherone works but loose consult connection when engine starts and two others not working =) Waiting for fresh ECU to remake.

But my main problem is the timing. I dont know how to build it. Does anyone have any idea how to solve this issue. Maybe some guide on how to create a timing map from blank?

When i put 40 timing to all timing map this sloved idle issue idlle fall to 750 as i programmed via idle controls in nistune. Befor doing this there was no way to put idle less then 900 and this was possible with completly closing idle regulation screw. Car realy runs fine on such setup but flat timing is not good i understand i need to build map, but cant find info on how it is done =)

[STATUS]

whats your email i will send a bin i know works to you as a base.

[robots]

Trent, can you share that bin with all of us here?

[Peace]

Here is my timing map for now. Yeah i know it is shit =) But atleast i got no detonation up ti 7k RPM at 0.6 boost and my car runs not too bad. I dont know what steps to take to fine tune it i sould advance some timing in loght load areas i believe. I will try stock map and advance it. Correct me if i wrong Numbers in cells are degres of advance?



Status i've PMed you my email.

[Peace]

Trent? Are you there?
I hope you will have a chance to send me maps i can start with =)

[skyline_stu]

Just browsed the posts, Peace, your map looks a little agressive under load, 30' is a bit too much IMHO under full load, 40' under boost/transition is too agressive a number to run. If your not sure on what to do, may I suggest you get your car to a Dyno and sort it from there - it may well be cheaper than breaking a ring land trying.. I did one here today and timing's no where near you numbers ( i do a RB25DET->Z32 tune most weeks) - perhaps if it's a DE it may work, but under boost it's far too much advance!!.. Off idle timing is too high too. copy the standard RB25DET maps over and check you TP scalers. this will provide you with some realistic numbers to use - check the timing in the gauge window matches on the harmonic balancer.

Tip #1 - You may need to remove #1 coil and use a lead as I've sen some timing lights read incorrectly using the earth return loop.

Stu

[Peace]

Hey Stu thx for reply but,
If i put stock timing map car detomaes hard =( i cant drive it full throttle without detonation
If i put stock ECU everything fine so i guess CAS ok and showing correct timing.
I will check with timing light later when it becomes warmer here =)

I'm wondering too how can it be so? 30 on full load whoud break ring superfast i believe but mine car dont run well under 20 timing, Wierd but this is how it is.

I got external knock monitoring, so i can say clear there is knok on stock maps when i use Z32ECU+nictune, there is no knoks on stock ecu, there is no knoks now. Wierd i know maybe someone got same problems

[skyline_stu]

It's a bit odd what your saying. I suspect you have a base timing error somewhere, or a CAS that's playing up. what Z32 base image are you using??

You should really check the timing before starting the tune.. !!

Stu

[STATUS]

Did you get it via email?

[Peace]

Trent thx, i got it. Got no time to aply it yet.

I will surely do it on weekend - Check the base timing with light and aply your image.


skyline_stu
I'm using default imgage provided with board.
Yeah imknow i need to set things right before raise boost. Thats why i discussing my situation wich is wierd. Thought i got 2 cars (not Skylines) runing nistune fine and my car is wierd -(

[Peace]

So what is done:

I've cheked timing with timing light. The timing light shows exacly the same timing as nistune(consult) shows. But car refuse to run good on stock maps on nistune and run well on stock ecu.

When i put this nistune to another ECR33 it runs fine, it runs good.

So i guess there is some-kind of wierd trouble inside my car.


Not tested Trents image on my car. But on clients car after adjusting K-const it was really good.
Thx alot Trent.

[Bernardd]

Are the cas wheels different by chance?

[skyline_stu]

If that's the case, you should go and see an experienced hitech diagnostics technician. There must be some reason for your timing descrepancies. I've done dozens of the Z32 to RB conversions without any hitches - Even a stagea with R34 style wiring !!

It can prove difficult to diagnose over the net when the basics are right -
My common expression to clients is "You'd see you Doctor in person when you're sick, do the same with your car and mechanic".

Stu

[Peace]

I would if there were good mechanics here i would do it. Most says its all fine with your car, when i askthem to sit with me while i full thorttle they say well it runs not bad for old car. The others say that first i need to change MAF, Coils, CAS, Knock Sensors and then maybe they will find the problems, but this cost a loads of money and MAF working great, i have 3 set of coils avaliable and try them all, i got also 3 CAS, no changes, 2 sets of knock sensors no changes.

So i'm on my own with my car and i hope to hear advices what should i check. Already thinking of changing entire wires, i got spare wiring.

My knowledge is juts not enought and i'm looking for advice =)
Thx for answering=)

[skyline_stu]

Where are u located first up.

Suggestions are :-

Find a dyno (and Nistune Tuner if possible), put your car on there and fill your timing maps with the same value. Have someone with a known good timing light actually CHECK the timing reported in Nistune against the timing on the balancer when under varied RPM/LOAD. Change the value in the maps and check again. If both read the same, the timing can then be eliminated from the problem. Did you also consider that the Z ECU may be at fault ??? - you performed the hardware changes to the Z ecu as per the document I helped compose?? You could spend a lot of time and money changing things if you don't have a clue as to what's the fault, it's more of a methodical diagnostics process rather than changing parts & chasing red herrings.... - You've already proven that the fault is not rectified by changing the coils/maf/knock sensors.


Sorry I can't be of any more help, but as stated before, it is very difficult to fix faults via mail.

Here's an important excerpt from Pete's Nistune support pages

Who can use NIStune? Almost anyone with basic computer skills and engine tuning knowledge can use it. If you know absolutely nothing about engines and/or tuning, then do not buy this system. It is very user friendly and we offer support to get you going - but we cannot teach you how to tune.

I'm also a little confused, you say you have little knowledge about EFI but you've tried this on a clients car ?
Stu