Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Nistune topics related specifically to the 6303 cpu

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Torque
 

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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Torque »

Hmmmm .... must be a mission impossible?!

I will reply to this via EMail since I feel this is not directly related to the PinOut Document anymore and many readers might get annoyed (sorry folks)
Maybe we could move this to a thread about ECUs?

One last thought:
Maybe Nissan would be willing to help and reveal at least where/how the knocks are being computed?
After all the Z32ECU is >20 years old which is in the stone-age of electronics and I doubt Nissan would reveal any crucial secrets by telling.

AFAIK patents expire after 20 years anyhow ..

Nity nite,

Andrew





Matt wrote:Thats correct on the Hitachi ECUs there is a register which is read which has a bit set to '1' when knock is detected. This is then used to maintain knock counters. I added my own counter which is read via a new consult insturction and then reset. That way the application can read the counts at its leasure without timing critical reads required

I have found most of them on the Hitachi ECUs which are the ones which currently have knock support (except for Z32 which has still escaped me. Might be since its relate to the JECS ECUs and knock circuitry is done differently perhaps?)

I was able to test this by bypassing the knock sensing board and send a square wave signal directly into the chip which takes the signal normally from the board. This then set a bit on the knock register for me to confirm

The Mitsubishi (JECS) ECUs have an imbuilt filter circuit and I am unable to intercept directly. I am also unable to know with the registers I have suspected if they work, since the filter circuitry may be filtering out my attempts to simulate knock with frequency generators

Yes its a nightmare. How far with which code code? There are about 70 different ECU part numbers for nissans that I deal with. Each code base varies (hence so does the disassembly). I've done basic disassembly (maps and consult addresses) on most of them, and then look into it further as required

Some others like Eric (eg Z32 VG30DETT) and Dave (B13 SR20DE etc) from tunercode have done a tear down on a particular ROM image to see how they work in more detail

No one has a complete memory map/address map from what I know. Parts in these ECUs are ASIC (application speciifc interface chip) so many of the registers are not known. Most of my knowledge comes from the basic consult information (reverse engineered from Techtom unit and published by PLMS) and map information (reverse engineered by the Japanese in ROM editor and associated GRID tuning packages). Working out also from patents in addition to the basic information from the maps you can start figuring out what the code is meant to do

There is an interrupt table in the various ECUs and the vectors are used. For example consult runs from the SCI vector, injection code on RB30 runs from the multipurpose ASIC A/D converter interrupt which takes in CAS signals and processes from there. It tends to vary between various ECUs but most of the maps and functionality remains the same which is good
Matt
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Matt »

Nissan holds the patents which are publically available anyway, but JECS did the design and coding for Nissan. I very much doubt either would provide internal design information without a contracts, agreements, and a large amonut of dosh going their way
Guilt-Toy
 

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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Guilt-Toy »

Is there a base .bin file for a completly standard R33 GTST, stock intercooler stock injectors and stock AFM?

all the ones i see seem to still have the Z32 afm settings and are suited more to the modified skylines, any stock tuned working bins around?
Torque
 

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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Torque »

Here's mine from spec2 on Z32ECU, all standard values.
AFM is the R33S2 AFM (different to S1 and identical to R34)

Hope that helps ...
Attachments
Z32_VG30DETT_41P03_MT_JDM_FROM_S2.bin
(32 KiB) Downloaded 215 times
Peace
 

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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Peace »

Confirm running greate with Fuel Temp Error DTC Raised.
First my Z32/RB25DET conversion was made with a mistake by 1 pin. And since everything is fine i dont bother get it of the car and redo it to correct pin.

No need to worry about Fuel Temp.
Torque
 

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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Torque »

Hi!

Yes I agree, it's only of cosmetic nature.

Nonetheless you don't want the ECU throwing alerts at you, don't you?


In the meantime I was busy and identified the source of the problem.
There will be a new document on this soon.

Cheers,

Andrew
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Zuikkis »

Torque wrote:Hi!

Yes I agree, it's only of cosmetic nature.

Nonetheless you don't want the ECU throwing alerts at you, don't you?
But the DTC is easy to kill with DTC Filtering, so it's not really a problem. :)
Torque
 

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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by Torque »

Zuikkis wrote:
Torque wrote:Hi!

Yes I agree, it's only of cosmetic nature.

Nonetheless you don't want the ECU throwing alerts at you, don't you?
But the DTC is easy to kill with DTC Filtering, so it's not really a problem. :)

Yes ... you are 100% right ...
You can disable it in the Filtering Panel.

(still I don't like it :))
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by STATUS »

Torque wrote:
Matt wrote:Well the R33 and Z32 do use different part # knock sensors

One option is to try a single knock sensor and would be interesting to see if having two sets of knock noise going into one input causes more false positives. I suspect it may not since the amplitudes may be the same, and it will produce a square wave output regardless - but then the knock sensor board may be getting confused also

Z32 ECUs use the same knock sensors as SR20s, so that would be option #2
Hi ...
I always though knock sensors produce some kind of sine wave around 15khz?

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums ... +frequency
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by PL »

Trent - you're a legend!

So you like the Kmon then??!

PL
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by STATUS »

PL wrote:Trent - you're a legend!

So you like the Kmon then??!

PL
Just bought the new KNOCK BOX (should be here this arvo) so i will let you know which i prefer. I used a knock box previously @ a shop but wasn't real happy with it but it turned out the old owner of it may have damaged it....

ive been using the k-mon (last two updates first blue writing now the silver writing version) for about 3 years and i love it, but i used a knock box the other day @ an engine dyno facility and i really want to try it in our chassis environment (noise cancelling headphones) so i sold the Kmon. I would recommend the k-mon to anyone who tunes regularly.

Let you know in a few weeks which one is better :P

PS feel free to steal the info in the other thread if you feel it can be used in any of your literature or tuning guides etc... i doubt it is but the offer is there.
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by PL »

I reckon the guys over at Jaustech have the Knockbox. I'll have to check. I played with it once but I keep going back to my old insulated condenser mic under the bonnet > amp module > heavy duty-clamp-on-your-head-like-a-mofo headphones....

PL
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by STATUS »

PL wrote:I reckon the guys over at Jaustech have the Knockbox. I'll have to check. I played with it once but I keep going back to my old insulated condenser mic under the bonnet > amp module > heavy duty-clamp-on-your-head-like-a-mofo headphones....

PL
Nice, would be interested in looking at it on day :) i used to use steelman chassis ears way back when but some engines are just too noisy.... plus im an old man and am going deaf :P The kmon is pretty good even when you bolt up the sensor to the head on solid headed engines. It allows you to pick up any increase in noise (pre ignition loading not detonation) which is handy for big boost big power stuff.

Excellent article here on det and stuff; http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums ... ma-f8.html (not mine)
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by PL »

For sure. Come check it out next time you're in town. I used the chassis ears too - but they suffer from waaaay too much mechanical noise. Result = hopeless. I place the mic so it's totally insulated from the engine - this is the key to its effectiveness.

I actually wrap it in a rag and stuff it under the intake manifold, facing the block. Crude - but very effective. This method was inspired by sticking my head under the bonnet with earmuffs clamped tightly to my head when doing a dyno pull - easy to hear knock when your head's next to the engine. This works great but it's somewhat dangerous and makes it difficult to drive the car at the same time! ;)

It worked so well that Simon got me to build a set for them too. He now uses this all the time! I never did get around to building a nice set for myself. So Simon's got the good set and I'm still using my old prototype. Always the way...

PL
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Re: Type 2 in Z32 for R33 RB25DET pinouts - document

Post by skylinegtrhr »

PL wrote:For sure. Come check it out next time you're in town. I used the chassis ears too - but they suffer from waaaay too much mechanical noise. Result = hopeless. I place the mic so it's totally insulated from the engine - this is the key to its effectiveness.

I actually wrap it in a rag and stuff it under the intake manifold, facing the block. Crude - but very effective. This method was inspired by sticking my head under the bonnet with earmuffs clamped tightly to my head when doing a dyno pull - easy to hear knock when your head's next to the engine. This works great but it's somewhat dangerous and makes it difficult to drive the car at the same time! ;)

It worked so well that Simon got me to build a set for them too. He now uses this all the time! I never did get around to building a nice set for myself. So Simon's got the good set and I'm still using my old prototype. Always the way...

PL
Hi Pete, can You post a picture of that "nice" set? Just to see how mic is mounted .
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