sr timing figures advice

[Fordy]

Ok guys been attacking my mapping alot lately and got it pretty good i think, it definatly feels good and can't hear any det on the det-scope

I'm running just stage 2 mods, fmic , 555s, hybrid t28 turbo (flows little more than a gt28r) and slightly lower comp ratio due to forged pistons and a metal headgasket

Heres a pic of my timing map and i'm going across and then up the 98 load and then into 91 load cells higher up around 5.5k onwards with afr's of steady 12's at 1.2bar boost


I've compared it to a commercial map for my stage and mine seems to kick in alot harder and quicker when driving which is what i like and im getting pretty decent mpg of around 30-32mpg on the motorway and 25-27 around town at 14.9-15 afrs

Just wondering what sort of figures others run and if i'm close to it or any advice about where to go from here

[Fusion Ed]

That looks like a pretty retarded light load area on that map. Say in the load areas between 30-63. Although you will not be able to accurately map that on the road since you'll never likely get knock (where there is not enough boost made) and your arse dyno (!) will not notice 2-3 hp in those areas...

Any idea what your torque curve looks like? I bet you can dial in ignition sooner after max torque is made, rather than a couple of degrees on the last two rpm columns, and potentially gain hp and more economy at the top end too. I'd say its a very safe ignition map, but probably a lot of room for specific tweaking if you can steal a dyno for an hour somewhere.

[IceManPL]

You need to advance light load area, compare it with 83F00 JDM map , you can easy go for about 40' timing at cruising.

[Fordy]

All good replys and no "its going to blow up stop right there" replys

Im running less timing between 30-63 is because i like the feel the car gives, i found when running more timing it makes it feel a bit flat if that makes sense

im only running 36 degrees in light load because i've done rough tests with a ecutalk box showing mpg over my drives to work everyday and from 41 degrees to 35 and to 36 degrees i found i get better mpg at 36deg (around 30mpg) than i do at 41 @ afr of 15 so i dont see the need to over advance it for no gain in mpg?

heres a copy of a 3rd gear pull from 1500rpm to redline via nistune log and dataloglab on the estimated power graph


I did have a horsham stage 2 map but this current map feels alot quicker than it

Guess i'll have to steal some dyno time now

Ed do you know how much surrey rolling road charges per hour to rent out the dyno? as i think i may finalise it on there

[Fusion Ed]

Flat is often good, not bad. I mapped a SR20VE today. It has an almost totally flat torque curve. On the road it felt not very exciting as it was so smooth, but there was the most area under the torque curve this way, and hence most available power at any given point as you can see here:



Its was running a stock N15 GTI ecu. Pink curve was when it drove in. Red was finished. It gained 45hp @ the red line!!!!!!, and around 15-20 bhp across the whole upper half RPM.

I suspect your car feels faster as you have lost a lot of mid range power, and then when it comes in on tune it would fly. I bet your EGTs go right up too and economy will fall off a lot mid range, as your just wasting energy, I guess it depends on your scaling and this is after all just my opinion.

Charlie charges £75/hr. Its worth doing, anyone who says the road is better (and this will upset some) is wrong. It is a vital part of the tuning process - yes, but you can be much more precise and accurate (not to mention 10x quicker) on a dyno.

Ed

[PL]

Hey Fordy,

Looks like a safe timing map but I think you'll find that you might pick up a bit of boost response by adding some more timing in the boost transition area and I know you'll get some top end by adding timing up top. Once you're past that nasty midrange "land of detonation" you can usually start dialing it in. If you're into peak power figures this is where it'll make the difference.

Here's my standard base timing map that I use as a starting point for most S13 SR's. Note that you may need to take a bit of the boost transition timing out depending on how fast your turbo comes up.

S13 SR20DET IGN 16psi.jpg

(59.54 KiB) Downloaded 6847 times

PL

[Fordy]

your opinions are being taken on board guys and thanks for the help

i've added a little bit more timing between 30-63 goes like 36,34, 25,24,23,22,21,19,16 and it feels better more smoother if anything

im not looking for pub figures i just want a car that feels good, smooth and goes well i'm taking it slowly n steady i'll get there i was happy enough getting the fueling right get the odd 1-2 deg of timing is a bonus now

i thought srr was more than that i'll save up for a couple of hours

think i'll take it gingerly through transistion and leave top end till i can finalise it on a dyno i think as it seems the safest option

[PL]

Yeah, I agree. Best to start off with a safe IGN map on the road and then do final tune on dyno. Then you can watch the power curve increase as you add timing. Or not increase as you're reaching detonation. Only way to go really. Road tuning can get dangerous very quickly.

PL

[Matt]

hence why I state do not do it in the disclaimers!

[blu3man]

S13 SR20DET IGN 16psi.jpg

PL

You use this as a starting point for S13s???

My timing table looks nothing like that. Im new to this all but isnt that quite aggressive?

Im running stock turbo in my s13 still at 9psi. But the namestamp of that image suggests 16psi? I thought you retard the timings for higher boost?

[skylinegtrhr]

S13 SR20DET IGN 16psi.jpg

PL

You use this as a starting point for S13s???

My timing table looks nothing like that. Im new to this all but isnt that quite aggressive?

Im running stock turbo in my s13 still at 9psi. But the namestamp of that image suggests 16psi? I thought you retard the timings for higher boost?

I tried Pete's IGN map on several S14's without any problem...

[Fordy]

i think its for srtock size injector aswell so might need inj's resizing if your running bigger ones

[blu3man]

S13 SR20DET IGN 16psi.jpg

PL

You use this as a starting point for S13s???

My timing table looks nothing like that. Im new to this all but isnt that quite aggressive?

Im running stock turbo in my s13 still at 9psi. But the namestamp of that image suggests 16psi? I thought you retard the timings for higher boost?

I tried Pete's IGN map on several S14's without any problem...

I tried this map today and found it was pretty good.

[Fordy]

I tried this map today and found it was pretty good.

did the sr have vvt? or was it a red top?

[gtikurt]

Flat is often good, not bad. I mapped a SR20VE today. Ed

I know you do this for a living and will fully understand if you say no, but I don't suppose you have the Ign map from that SR20VE to hand do you? Or afew pointers of what degree it was at certain points, for me to use as a guide?

Cheers